Education in US

[Dr. Greenthumb]

i dont knowif this is implemented in any other states but in Florida all public high school students are given an FCAT test (florida comprehensive assessment test). if you fail the FCAT you are not allowed to graduate. the test requires basic reading, writing, math, and science skills.

this has caused many student not to graduate their senior year even though they have passed their classes. the thing is that instead of furthering education all classes are focused on getting students to pass the FCAT. the test is nowhere near as difficult as the SAT.

The parents of these kids are getting angry because children are not graduating but do they deserve to graduate and should the test even be implemented.

so heres the over view:
FCAT lower the standards of the individual classes in order to teach basic skills for the test

children are not passing the FCAT but they are passing their classes.

it seems that the intelligence of the youth of america is rapidly diminishing yet there is no changes in a system that needs a complete overhaul. many kids in south florida graduate high school without even knowing how to speak english then spend their first 2 years in college learning skills that should have been required to graduate highschool.

[Dr. Greenthumb]

http://www.firn.edu/doe/sas/fcat/aboutf ... about.html

[Holy_Schnikees]

Here in Idaho a new test was recently added to our graduation requirements. The ISAT (Idaho standard achievement test). You can take it in any of your 4 years of highschool. 98% of the students at my school pass it and go on to graduate. Most of us took it sophomore year and I passed fine. Ours might be easier but it seems if you know highschool material you should be able to pass the test? Or are you saying the FCAT is totally off the subjects of florida highschool material.

[weedguru_animal]

it can be no surpriethat america education system is in tatters, not because all americans are stupid, far from it.. we shouldnt be surprised because the people who run tghe US ar interested only in $$$$$$, and their range of interest doesnt include any intentions of laying good foundations in the youth of the US society, because maybe a low skilled workforce is useful and/or if the $$$ run out in the us, the big players are global so they just move their investments/businesses elsewhere...

i mean look at the US defenc budget compared to the US education budget..
now thatd be interesting Doc....???

[Dr. Greenthumb]

Or are you saying the FCAT is totally off the subjects of florida highschool material.

the problem here seems to be that many students dont pass it sophmore year do to lack of previous education in their previous years of school. so then instead of learning new skills jr and sr year are spent getting everyone to pass the FCAT. students and teachers complain that its causing them to focus primarily on the FCAT but they seem to be overlooking the fact that only the simplest of skills are required to pass this thing.

i use to hate going to private school but looking back on it now that im in college im gladd i learned everything that i did, even if i didnt enjoy it at the time.when i started college i didnt have to take any remedials and was able to go straight into my core classes. now i see that alot of the students in my classes are second and third year students.

[cutthecashflow]

Honestly the kids that did not pass the test do not deserve to graduate. I mean do you people want a nation of morons running our country. (Kind of Ironic I know) For future references though we need to have the bright succeed and the less bright held back until they can show that they will be of value to society. Look at Japan the kids over there go to school year round and the Japanese are among some of the brightest people on the face of the planet.

Another factor is maybe it is not the kids fault. Maybe just maybe the teaching skills could be tweaked a little bit here in the states. For one teachers are among the lowest paid salaries in the nation. Someone can go to a technical college for two years and make twice the hourly rate that a teacher can make for going to school for four to six years. This is just showing you that teachers are for one not rewarded enough or maybe two that if the collegiate level made it more diffucult to acqurie a teaching degree then maybe teachers could get paid more. And by offering harder, longer, and more intense courses at the collegiate level then I'm sure there would be better teachers at the highschool level.

I look back at highschool now and I think what a joke. I didnt learn a thing by going to highschool except how to deal drugs, and drink booze. I've hit college now and it is only now that I have started to grow up and actually expand on my knowledge.

So is what they are doing wrong? I think not I think it is the first step in a positive direction.

[Dr. Greenthumb]

i see what you mean but another problem with the test is the kids that pass their sophmore year are still stuck in a class room that is based around passing the FCAT. i agree if kids dont have these skills they shouldnt graduate but while the test sets a standard it lowers the level of education given in the schools.

[weedguru_animal]

Honestly the kids that did not pass the test do not deserve to graduate. I mean do you people want a nation of morons running our country. (Kind of Ironic I know) For future references though we need to have the bright succeed and the less bright held back until they can show that they will be of value to society. Look at Japan the kids over there go to school year round and the Japanese are among some of the brightest people on the face of the planet.

'we need to have the bright succeed and the less bright held back'.. that is fucked ctcf.. that kind of view is pretty similar to Bush and his cronies.....they don’t give a fuck about the poor and dumb people. they only care at all, or their system only helps/encourages the kids who excel the most at school.. but excelling at school doesn’t automatically equate to a solid/useful contribution to society...
I would see a kid with no talent in any 'government selected USEFUL subjects' but who was like really nice natured , kind ,considerate, caring, sympathetic,, yes I would se him as more useful to society than any kid who was lacking humanity but excelled in maths or science or engineering..

I know I have focused on one small part of what you wrote Chris, but that line about leaving the less bright to the wayside, to be honest, infuriated me..

I really cant stand that attitude of society giving more help/encouragement to the seeds of society who show academic prowess...

its a hard subject to approach but one I will give some more attention(at some point soon) because I have very specific observations/suggestions for education..

the US system doesn’t start all kids in education at the same point, with the same standard of teaching...money and I dare to say skink colour unfortunately still decide much..

and that attitude of 'leaving the bright by the wayside'(misquoted but similar)basically helps the luckier kids and punishes the kids who come from poorer areas...

you know mate, its the kids who are 'less bright' who need the help the most, not the other way round.. else y9ou will end up with a society run by brainaic cunts who are put in power because they control the brainless masses...that’s no good for anyone...

[Dr. Greenthumb]

i have one problem with your view, children who excel academically should be put into special programs and its not all about book smarts and designated subjects but thats not what brilliance is based on. its how the mind solves problems and the ability for it to retain information. some kids cant keep up for one reason or another but i dont think that the majority of succesful student should lose out on furthering their education because of what some students cant grasp. especially when these are simple skills nothing that the ordinary first year high school student shouldnt know.

as for the comment about skin color i agree that there are some places in this country where poor kids cant get an education but at least in miami it seems to be the opposite. all the magent schools are in poorer neighborhoods, my little brother is advanced for his age and my parents couldnt get him into a magnet public school. he scored better than the children there but the school had a race quota. so chances are that most likely he wont be able to get the better education, while dumber kids are taking these advanced classes.

[Mr Rotten Treats]

I don't see why such a test is an issue. You say it covers basic reading, math, writing and the works. Emphasis on basic, as in stuff you learned in highschool that isn't totally hard to learn and understand. No offense, but if you can't pass a test covering basic education, you don't deserve a diploma either.

[Weedguru_Dusk]

I didn't see graduation tests as such a big deal. In Georgia we took them junior year and they cover the basics of math, reading, writing, science, and geography.
Any of them that you failed you are allowed to take again senior, and I do believe in all honesty if you do not pass them then you shouldn't graduate.

I do remember we had other random tests to take which I didnt find a significants in. With the 'no child left behind' act there had to be a certain number of students that had to be in school that day or the school failed whatever standards no matter how well those that took the test did.

[Mr Rotten Treats]

Now that is BS. I'm more a fan of a 'If one falls behind, fuck him, I'm outta here' principle.

[cutthecashflow]

Im sorry, but why exactly not hold back the kids that are not doing good. As said before it should be made a lot more diffucult to get out of highschool then what it is. Animal half of these kids just don't give a flying fuck about how well they exceed and use highschool as a post to lean on. They are either not trying or are a little mentally challenged. If they are not trying in school and they have the capability to do better (thats what aptitude tests are for) then there is no reason they should be given the same privelege as the kids that work hard and deserve to have special treatment.

It's just like at a job in a sense theres the guy that is always slacking off and doing as little as he or she can to get by. Well this person seldom often if ever gets a raise or praise from higher authority. The worker that works hard and gets things done on the other hand is more apt to get a raise or be more successfull in what he or she does and is usually looked down upon with great gratitude. Now why should the same not be done in school. If a kid does not understand the subject then that individual should be stuck there until they can grasp the context of what is being presented to them. If the kid is doing well in school then a little pat on the back or as I like to call positive reinforcement is a way to show that the people of the school and of the community care that this kid is succeeding and doing well.

There are many factors that play a role in whether or not a kid does well in school. Does the kid do his/her own homework, or does he/she copy from other kids? Does the kid want to try and participate in class, or does the kid always come in and not pay attention to what is being presented to them? (For free! which kids have no idea how huge of a benifit free education is!) Is the kid bound to succeed or bound to fail? Im sorry but my views are only the strong will survive and be rewarded efficiently. If one kid works harder and does better at school then another then that kid deserves the rewards and benefits of putting there time in. If a kid wishes to slack off or not try at the material well then they should be kept there until they are able to grasp the concept. In my opinion this descion can only lead to brighter individuals getting somewhere in life. You say this sounds like Bush and his cronies and how they act. How can you even compare the two issues. All bush cares about is taking whatever he wants without thinking about his actions at a further date in time. (Gas, land, Oil, democracy where democracy is not needed) on the other hand you have the education issue. And by letting the kids go that have succeeded in education you are only looking out for the best interest of society and the country.

[Dr. Greenthumb]

I don't see why such a test is an issue. You say it covers basic reading, math, writing and the works. Emphasis on basic, as in stuff you learned in highschool that isn't totally hard to learn and understand. No offense, but if you can't pass a test covering basic education, you don't deserve a diploma either.

thats exactly my point...my problem with the test is that kids are learning other things they need to now for their jr and sr years. so what happens is that thr stupid kids arent passing but they are slowing down class for everyone else. i think its especially a problem in south florida because many of the students dont even speak english.

[weedguru_animal]

' If one kid works harder and does better at school then another then that kid deserves the rewards and benefits of putting there time in. If a kid wishes to slack off or not try at the material well then they should be kept there until they are able to grasp the concept. IMO this decision can only lead to brighter individuals getting somewhere in life.'

I shouldn’t get too involved in this debate because I don’t know much about the tests in question. however my problem was, and still is the 'concentrate on the kids who do well at school, fuck the kids who don’t do so well'..

I'm competitive in sport and ALL computer games, even Virtual Golf, however I am sure that one of the greatest problems with the whole capitalist system comes from that word COMPETITION. education system teaches from an early age that competition leads to success(for the winners). Kids are taught to INDIVIDUALLY compete with the world which can also be described as 'doing your best'...same thing, different words.
Look at the captains of commerce, they are 99% a bunch of evil fucks, which is not surprise because they are also, generally, ultra competitive people in all areas of life as you cant become successful without being as god if not better than other people in your field of expertise...

another point to note is this:
if at school, there are some kids who muck about and seemingly have a severe aversion to education and this group are systematically ostracized from the core of the education system whilst at the same time seeing other kids their own age encouraged and attended to by the teachers, what is that going to do? it automatically increases divisions between groups of people, at a very early age, which from whichever POV is just plain wrong to me..
of course I agree that kids who really want to learn should be encouraged and helped accordingly..
but the 'lets concentrate on the good eggs, fuck the rest' attitude is appalling. I cant get round that..