~God~

FIRE!!! · Post by **FIRE!!!** » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:47 pm

I believe there is a God. Maybe this God didn't make the planet Earth, or humankind, or animals or air or farting or food stamps or anything else, but someone or something or some form of energy must have created the beginning. It couldn't have just happened. Even if scientists are right, and the universe was created from the big bang, I believe there was some driving force or energy behind that explosion. It couldn't have come from nowhere, right?

Funk Doctor · Post by **Funk Doctor** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:13 pm

CelticOne wrote:I believe there is a God. Maybe this God didn't make the planet Earth, or humankind, or animals or air or farting or food stamps or anything else, but someone or something or some form of energy must have created the beginning. It couldn't have just happened. Even if scientists are right, and the universe was created from the big bang, I believe there was some driving force or energy behind that explosion. It couldn't have come from nowhere, right?

There's a theory that speculates that the big bang we know is just another one in an infinite number of previous bangs, a sequence that doesn't have a beginning or an end. It sounds a bit difficult to believe, but then again, time is a man-made concept.

Scratch · Post by **Scratch** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:58 pm

Phaux, you seem like an intelligent guy and you're also a Christian (I've tried discussing this with some other Christians, but they were just too stupid), so I'd like to ask you about your views on something.

You say God has given us free will. I'm quite sure we have no free will. It's a bit hard to explain, especially cause English is not my primary language. It's the cause and effect law. Everything that happens and everything that exsists has had a cause and a logical explanation why it happened. Just think of the past and the present. Something happened that caused something else to happen which caused something else to happen and so on, to the present day. You can apply the same logic to the future.
So basically we have no choice. Everything we feel, say, do has a cause in the past and a logical effect in the future. So how can God say that we have sinned if we had no choice?

Imagine someone who has infinite intelligence and perfect observing capabilities. He knows exactly what will happen in for example 5000 years, because he can see all the causes and all the effects (which are causes for some other effects etc.). So, he saw your birth and knows exactly what you will do in your life, which sins you will commit because you had no choice. So, can you really be held responsible (by God) if you had no choice and were just a part of the cause-and-effect chain?

BUDA · Post by **BUDA** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:23 pm

So basically we have no choice. Everything we feel, say, do has a cause in the past and a logical effect in the future. So how can God say that we have sinned if we had no choice?

But theres always mutiple choices along this so called 'cause and effect line' and some are right and some are wrong. Its up to the individual or Group to chose the right decision. Fine theres causes and effects to everything but in the end it comes down to the decision at that moment in time. If that makes sense. sorry to butt in haha

phaux · Post by **phaux** » Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:46 pm

TheBigPicture wrote:Phaux, you seem like an intelligent guy...

thanks at least someone noticed.

Everything that happens and everything that exsists has had a cause and a logical explanation why it happened.

True.

Just think of the past and the present. Something happened that caused something else to happen which caused something else to happen and so on, to the present day. You can apply the same logic to the future.

True. Everything happens for a reason.

So basically we have no choice. Everything we feel, say, do has a cause in the past and a logical effect in the future. So how can God say that we have sinned if we had no choice?

First of all I want to make point that what your talking about is basically a doctorine called Predestination which basically means "God's Plan". Basically, "Things happen for a reason." And yes you can say that the descions you make in the future can effect the ones in the past.
Its like watching a movie. Your halfway through it and you may be sickened by whats going on but theres nothing you can do but sit there and hope that the main charachters next descion is going better then the last. Its the same thing for God. He despises sin and wants you to come to him, not go to him because we have to.

Let's say you breed dogs. You get a litter of beautiful dogs but as they grow they are mean. They will not listen to you, they bite you and continue to get worse. There is nothing you can do to change their temperament. What do you do? Most people would destroy that litter, because they are more trouble then they are worth. If you sell them you might get sued, etc... You have the right and many people would say the responsibility to destroy those dangerous dogs. Did the dogs have any choice in their temperament? Can they change if they want to? Yet we think it is okay because you were the breeder and you know what is best....

We are not even to the level of dogs in comparison to God, yet we judge Him for His actions against us and we do have the choice whether we want to change or not. So who is it who is absurd? I say it is we who are, and God who is full of love and grace that He would reach out to us in our absurdity. How many of us would allow someone to speak about them the way people do about God but yet still reach out our hand and forgive them if they only ask?

Imagine someone who has infinite intelligence and perfect observing capabilities. He knows exactly what will happen in for example 5000 years, because he can see all the causes and all the effects (which are causes for some other effects etc.).

Ok... Jesus. (God)

So, he saw your birth and knows exactly what you will do in your life, which sins you will commit because you had no choice. So, can you really be held responsible (by God) if you had no choice and were just a part of the cause-and-effect chain?

Let's look at an alcoholic. Many people try to say that if a person has a father or mother who was an alcoholic then that person is more likely to become one also. So should we judge that person harshly if they become an alcoholic? Did they have a choice? Of course they did, no one becomes an alcoholic without taking at least one drink. And in fact if they lived with an alcoholic in the family you could quite rightly assume that the last thing they would want to do is start drinking. God judges no one until they know right from wrong either. But when that person does know right from wrong, what is their choice? Most often it is for doing wrong. (Romans 3:22 NIV)This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, {23} for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, {24} and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. Now just because they have a heart that will attempt to make them do wrong is not an excuses for wrong doing. If you say it is, then we are right back to the child, why even correct them?

The problem your having is that your trying to put God into a nice neat little box so they can understand Him. It's impossible to understand the wisdom of God.

Yes we are all inclined to do wrong, but we don't have a gun to our head making us choose that course. We have the choice to either except what God wants for us or refuse to accept it, but if we refuse we give up any right to argue that God has no right to judge us.

Part of the problem with this kind of thought is that the person often tries to bring God down to their level. He does not have to answer to us, we must answer to Him. He created us and can do anything He wants with us, but He chooses to love us.

God is just, He is kind, He is full of love, and He wants us (all of us) to have a relationship with Him so that we can live with Him for eternity, but He owes us nothing.

And if you think your actions of your past is going to effect your future, God gave you a way out of Sin and that was his Son Jesus. God wants to forgive you, but you have the FREEWILL to decide if you want his forgivness.

I hope this kind of answers something, sorry it went so long but your question was amazing and it took myself, my girlfriend, and my friend who is a pastor to come to this.

Tlicious · Post by **Tlicious** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:03 am

Why the fuck do people type so damn much about the contemplation of an existing god, there is a fucking god ok, and if you dont think so then you can just go to hell.

mac dre · Post by **mac dre** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:04 am

actually if they dont believe in god they prolly arent going to hell anyway, because there isnt a hell (or heaven for that matter).

Funk Doctor · Post by **Funk Doctor** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:43 am

Trance wrote:Why the fuck do people type so damn much about the contemplation of an existing god, there is a fucking god ok, and if you dont think so then you can just go to hell.

don't worry, i'm going to live a life of absolute sin, then repent on my death bed. basically that's my get into heaven free card

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:07 am

Anyone who follows catholisism and similar religions should not even be on here!

MOT · Post by **MOT** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:19 pm

Good topic......always gets ppl goin for it......personally i dont believe in God but its kinda hard to when u do a science subject for a career.....however i do think some of the stories and values of religions have a good basis for life.

cottonmouth · Post by **cottonmouth** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:40 pm

k. i have many problems with what you said. but i am too lazy to talk about them all right now. so i will only say a few.

1. "Let's say you breed dogs. You get a litter of beautiful dogs but as they grow they are mean. They will not listen to you, they bite you and continue to get worse. There is nothing you can do to change their temperament. What do you do? Most people would destroy that litter, because they are more trouble then they are worth. If you sell them you might get sued, etc... You have the right and many people would say the responsibility to destroy those dangerous dogs. Did the dogs have any choice in their temperament? Can they change if they want to? Yet we think it is okay because you were the breeder and you know what is best.... " wtf? i, for one, do not want to be treated as a dog.. fuck that shit. if he wants us to love him, i want a reason to love him.. he cant just create me, let me go off on my own, and then just love him. for what? fuck you. think of it this way... you have a kid. then you decide to move away.. write a book about how the kid should love you, and if he dosent, hes going to hell.. i dont know.. its bullshit, if ya ask me.

2) what about space? it says that god created earth in 7 days. k. what about mars? or jupiter? or the sun?! besides, if god is 'all powerfull' and such, why did it take 7 days to create earth? why dosent he snap his fingers and do it that way? oh, and now that i think of it, 7 days? 7 earth days? what? if earth isent created yet, how can it have its own time-frame of a day?

3) wtf are you doing here in the first place? if your catholic, how can you possibly smoke weed without thinking your going to hell for it? i dont know. i think you completly contradict yourself by doing so.

Dunlop · Post by **Dunlop** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:52 pm

i've always been undecided about my belief in god, but i am very certain about one thing... if god is real i will never worship him!!!!!

what reason does anyone have to worship god? what has he done for you? he dosn't give you choices... he put you here because he felt like it... why? because he was bored? if the human race didn't exsist, nobody would be alive to care... which means nobody would ever have to go through any kind of suffering... god created cancer, aids, etc. he created lucifer if you believe in all the bible shit... people say you have to have some bad with the good, otherwise you wouldn't appreciate the good... the fact is that these days, it's the oposite... there is more bad in the world then good... the world has gone to shit to the point where i would never think of bringing a kid into this world for those reasons... to me that is the best gift i could give someone... NOT giving them life........ and people still worship the sadist that created this thing???? i have never been able to understand it

and christianity??? hahahaha what a joke!!!! catholics FORCE their kids to go to 'sunday school' or catechism(sp)... the kids go into a room filled with religous pictures and info... and the 'teacher' preaches about god. the get a biased view on the subject, and until they are 16 or so they have to go... can you say brainwash?????? read some history... hitler did that same thing to german kids in WWII... and yet christians will try to defend this... seems to me that christians are nothing but a nazi cult brainwashing their kids so that they will brainwash their kids etc.... if that's how you have to keep your faith, you can keep it for yourself

i made one prayer in my lifetime, even though i was forced to go to church till i was 15, when i finally refused.... but i din't pray to god... i prayed to lucifer, and told him IF it all is real, that i would fight for him against god.. holy war bla bla bla... but i would never worship him either... i worship myself. i never asked for exsistence, but apparently i'm stuck with it... so i'll be doing things my way, not by the rules of some fairytale book.

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:19 am

I made it it through moving from Ottawa to Saipan, in the middle of butt-fuck nowhere, being bitten on the neck by a jungle-dog upon arrival, survived herpetic esophegitis (deadly), and made it through some badass depression when my parents split (didnt speak for two months) in a course of 5 months. I absolutely fucking refuse to believe that it was just luck. God helped me through all that shit, and anyone who says there isn't a God can lick hairy bollock. Im not saying that it's tall, white, muscular, and sits on a throne in clouds. Shit, I have no clue what God is, but it exists. Most definatly exists.

weedguru tom · Post by **weedguru tom** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:57 pm

i dont see god as a person, i see god as a prime mover as aristotle did.

mac dre · Post by **mac dre** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 10:45 pm

MuShIeS wrote:I absolutely fucking refuse to believe that it was just luck.

good, it wasnt just luck.. it was Bad luck mostly.

www.weedguru.com

~God~

Who is online