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Who's who?
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 5:58 pm
by th3rdeye
Background Info: Mary and Judy have both been placed in a situation where Judy needs a brain transplant and Mary is terminally ill, while her brain is perfectly health. Through principal brain transplants are possible.
Mary's brain is placed in Judy's head, while only disconnected from a life system for brief seconds. When the body of Judy awakes, who will she be?
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:54 pm
by crazylazyidiot
i have no fu*^#% clue.
who?
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:22 pm
by Weedguru Anex
Mary of course.
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 8:42 pm
by th3rdeye
Of course you say? Why is that?
Let me quote myself
I vote neither. This brings up the materialist vs the dualist. Are our minds purely physical? Or is there a non-physical entity to our mind? Would the transported mind keep the same memories of Mary, or would it be a blank slate. That, to me, leaves us with two possible outcomes. Either the brain retains all previously knowledge, or it is a complete blank slate. So I thought of it like this...
Take for example a VCR. The time is programmed in, but you can unplug it and plug it right back in, but the time will be flashing 00:00. All memory was reset due to lack of power. Even if the brain is disconected for a mere couple of seconds, it is technically dead. It has no life support. Thus I think that when the person was awoken, it would be neither Mary nor Judy. But a clean slate...someone new.
So if it's Mary, than does she have a "soul" or is it simply her memories that she will be reawakened with?
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:42 pm
by jonny cockeral
this is fucked up im confused
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:57 pm
by Weedguru Anex
Well what makes Mary, Mary is her concious, the way she thinks, her body has nothing to do with it.
If someone lost an arm, they would still be the same person. So if someone loved Mary enough, and there were no body to transplant to and she ended up a brain in a jar, the person would still love her. But then when the offer of a body came up, they'd probably be really happy that she would be more than that again, but she would still be Mary. If you follow me?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 5:52 am
by Caro
According to Shelleyan logic, the creature would be a blank slate, without memories but with a soul because she is human.
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:00 am
by cryptic
but physically your memory is in your brain so you wouldnt lose it if you completely removed her brain and put it in another body
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:26 am
by Weedguru Anex
Well you could argue that her memories aren't what makes her Mary either.
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:42 pm
by th3rdeye
Weedguru Anex wrote:Well what makes Mary, Mary is her concious, the way she thinks, her body has nothing to do with it.
If someone lost an arm, they would still be the same person. So if someone loved Mary enough, and there were no body to transplant to and she ended up a brain in a jar, the person would still love her. But then when the offer of a body came up, they'd probably be really happy that she would be more than that again, but she would still be Mary. If you follow me?
But an arm is NOT a brain. The brain is technically dead during the few seconds it is completly disconnected to any life source. Her body has plenty to do with it, since the body is what nurishes the brain and keeps it alive. Its quite the possibility that why it will be a functioning brain, it will have no memories of anything. And of course it is memories that make up a person...our personality is built around our memories. If you have no memories you are but an actor on the stage.
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:43 pm
by th3rdeye
cryptic wrote:but physically your memory is in your brain so you wouldnt lose it if you completely removed her brain and put it in another body
That is not a fact, but a wide believed opinion. There have been instances while certain sections of the brain, being removed, result in a loss of all memory, but are those willing to argue the soul and memories are not of any "physical state." On top of that, how do you explain psychogenic amnesia?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:52 pm
by street pharmacist
But your memory stays with your soul and I can prove this becuase when you dream or go out of your body you go to a place called an astral plane and your memories stays with you but your mind is completely detached from your body. And i have had an OBE and i went to places that i remebered and saw things that i remembered when i had a lucid dream.
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 3:56 pm
by th3rdeye
you can prove this? Souls are illogical and far from provable. On top of that, for the sake of arguement, lets say the soul does exist. Now who is to say souls are in the brain and go with it. The soul may very well abadon the brain.
Like I said this is a materialist and dualist arguement. Materialists believe there is only the physical state of the mind, while dualist believe there is the physical state state of the mind along with the non-physical state.
Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 3:41 am
by Tlicious
Well judy has obviously lost her mind
Posted: Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:16 am
by GodHand Kronix
dude who cares who shed be as long as she has a fresh new brain to smoke up!