osama bin laden DEAD

[Ikku]

I have to say I'm not big on the 9/11 truth movement but that link Toonces posted was interesting. I've not looked at that "confession" before, I've always assumed it was pretty good evidence (I was 11 years old at the time of the attacks and the time that video was released). Now I'm not so sure bin Laden was behind the attacks. I was never sure, I thought maybe he was involved but under the pay and protection of the US government to take the heat. I wasn't sure on his death being real, now I'm almost positive it's fabricated.

I wonder what the world would be like if Watergate was never uncovered. These conspiracy theories would be less prevalent, people would have much more faith in their elected officials. But good thing that scandal blew up, it lifted the wool from our eyes probably more than anything else.

[weedguru_animal]

Ugh two times in a row now that my post gets deleted after I want to submit it... bullshit. The other day I had a written out post as well which then got deleted. I decided to rewrite it but then decided against submitting it. It was clear to me, that there were people on both sides of the debate who simply wouldn't change their stance. People keep saying that there is no proof that Bin Laden specifically was responsibly for the attacks themselves. But at the same time, there simply is no proof that he was not the one responsible for the attacks... so to each their own. On a personal level, the incidents which transpired on September 11th are rooted in a deeper history than that day itself. It all started with the Cold War and the United States' relations with Afghanistan. Sure, there may not be any proof that Bin Laden gave the direct orders to the highjackers on the day of September 11th. With that being said, after conducting some research on the history of freedom fighters and their perception of the west, as well as the United States' past history with Afghanistan and other middle eastern nations, once again to me, it shows that Al Qaida and Bin Laden were the most likely to be responsible for the attacks. In addition, Bin Laden was Al Qaida's leader at the time, so whether or not he gave the direct orders or not is actually a moot point in my books. Bin Laden may have never openly stated "I, Osama Bin Laden conducted the attacks", however he shared knowledge about why the attacks, specifically on the towers, were initially inspired and acted upon. If he was simply being a phony and taking responsibilty for something he was not responsible for then I believe he deserved the same fate he received anyway...

As for the post I was going to submit the other day here it is...

Ahh I had already written a post in response to you AFI, but it got deleted! With that being said, it is clear that any piece of evidence I show will be put into question. You have already made your mind up on one end of the spectrum and frankly I do not care whether or not your opinion changes... that's up to you. I have never said anything about proof holding up in a court of law, because as I'm sure you are aware, many nations have already stated that there simply would not have been enough evidence to convinct Bin Laden in a court of law. This does not stop me from using my own mind and taking evidence for what it is to draw some sort of conclusion. While I'm doing all the work here, what is your proof for the other side of the debate? All I constantly hear is discussion of the United States' past history of deceit and not telling the whole truth... This is simply not good enough and would be an incredibly weak counter-argument in a court of law as well.

As for my point, which could indeed be considered coincidental in a court of law, does it not at all change your perspective on the likelihood that Al Qaeda may have been responsible? Perhaps you do not understand who Massoud was and what he represented? Massoud was the leader of the more legitimate Northern Alliance in Afghanistan. Only weeks before the acts of September 11th he had publically warned the United States of such attacks. Then,two days prior to September 11th, he was assassinated by the first ever suicide bombing in Afghanistan. Now, the individual who the United States would have turned to in a time of crisis was eliminated. In addition, the Taliban and other terrorist groups now controlled most of the nation. Finally it WAS proven that Al Qaeda was responsible for the attacks on Massoud. I do not see the point in adding any more facts to prove my point, because they will certainly be refuted by non-believers. Even when I show a video where Bin Laden openly admits to being at the very least inspirationally responsible for the attacks it is dismissed at the snap of a finger and deemed "fake". I am not here to change your mind, I am simply here to state my opinion. Basically all other facts I could bring up such as Al Qaeda members receiving a large amount of flight training have already been beaten to death... and I'm CERTAIN you've already debated any point I could bring up in the 10 years since the event. If you'd like some more food for thought, however, Al Qaeda are the only terrorist group in the world who use suicide attacks as their NUMBER 1 strategy when it comes to terrorist activities.

In the end, I agree that it is IMPOSSIBLE, with the information provided to know for certain that Bin Laden was the individual who directly commanded the acts of September 11th. At the VERY LEAST however, he was the leader of the group who certainly did commit the acts. Al Qaeda is an international terrorist group with citizens from dozens of nations taking part in their terrorist activities. At the time of the attacks, he was their LEADER. Who should one target in such a situation? There is only one answer, Bin Laden.

The very fact that people are bringing up conspiracy theories about two entirely different events proves that people on here either smoke too much weed (as they should) and are extremely paranoid, or that they simply dismiss EVERY SINGLE account provided by the United States' government. This thread is about the fact that Bin Laden was killed, not even about whether or not he was responsible for the attacks themselves... and look what we're discussing.

if it was truly, which i don't believe, Osama Bin laden, as close to as possible taking responsibility for the twin towers attack...its a massive move away from what i believe...but if i do make that jump, i still find his stance...somewhat judicial and understandable. I argue with americans and austrralians overflowing with american propoganda, daily, weekly...and even if i believe that Osama was responsible for 9/11, which I do not, but will react accordingly to if i did believe such a conclusion...still...after the factual and widspread trauma the US government have caused, to their neighbours, to foreign lands, then Osama seems more of a true General, a man determined to put his own life on the line to react...yes...to RE-FUCKING-ACT...to the very obvious, nothing to do with far fetched conspiracy theories, acts of the american government, NOT PEOPLE AS A WHOLE, of the last 4 or 5 decades. Its not hard to see Osama, if he was indeed responsible for 9/11, as...a revolutionary hero.

It doesn't take an adventurous, deep intellect to see the extreme, and constantly brutal horrors the US government has directly brought upon, the palestine, afghanistan, iraq, nicaragua, argentina, chile, haiti, panama, cuba, honduras, mexico, el salavador, palestine...its a VERY simple to understand line of 'you beat people down enough, for so long, and at some point, some of them are bound to fight back'.

I am not saying in any way that the US people deserved the carnage of 9/11...but i am definitely saying, that its high time, that some of the many peoples viciously, brutally crunched by the americans, reacted in the same vein...

and its ridiculous, a sign of lack of knowledge of your own government, to puff out your chests, and say 'he killed so many innocents!'...for what the fuck do you think the american government has done, for many decades, and will continue to do, until they are stopped???? I am taking no moral high ground, for the english are the past masters of pouring carnage onto other nations...yes, we are still at such things, but more careful than to make it as obvious as the america govenment. Which leades onto...such questions as...'does it not bother any americans on this forum, that they have senators, elected officials, campaigning for the assassination of Chavez??????'...perhaps not, but my only conclusion from such matters, is that a staggerinbgly huge % of the US populace are spoon fed fucking morons...perfect...for those in charge...but for me...a conclusion that makes me shamed at been human.

[Weedguru_Fire_Inside]

Couldn't agree more Dan. Well said.

The only thing i'd add to what dan said, so American users don't think they're being victimised, is that there are plenty of spoonfed fucking morons in the UK too.

[WeedGuru_Flow]

There are throngs of spoonfed morons across the world, and I fully agree to Dan's post.


There are many things we will never truly find out and it doesn't take a scientist to figure out that Osama wasn't a central point of power or authority within his network,it would surprise me if an organization like al qaida consists of one leader and could be 'beheaded' by taking out it's leader...

[SToNeR ChRiS]

I certainly respect both viewpoints, as there is definitely basis behind all the thoughts which are being shared here. I guess it's just that the defence that "we will never truly know what is going on" is one that grinds my gears. On one side of the spectrum there are those who believe everything they are spoon fed by the media and or respective governments. On the other end of the spectrum there are those who believe that the government hides information from the general public and therefore these individuals believe that there simply is "more to the story than meets the eye". The truth certainly lies somewhere in between. I'm sure, like many of you are, that there are things that are being hidden by the government. With that being said, the simply reality that we do not know what these things are leaves pretty much everything that is stated as fact by the media and government as questionable. Believing that there is more to the story is understandable, but without any actual proof, everything is pretty much hearsay. I am not a moron, as Flow and Dan have so eloquently put it, who believes everything I am spoon fed. But I do believe that most of what has been said about 9/11 and Osama Bin Laden is actually true. Terrorist groups exist, and it would be completely naive to disregard the reality that the United States would be the number one target of the biggest terrorist organization out there...

As for your post Dan, I can understand where you are coming from, but at the same time as you believe that Osama Bin Laden (should he have been the one responsible) reacted to the West's destruction and intrusion on the middle east and other locations... I still believe Osama got what he deserved as well? The same can be said about the United States who, in turn, reacted to the terrosist events of September 11th.

[logically]

I skipped a lot of posts because its difficult for me to read heavy handed political views... but I'm just gonna throw this out here.


Osama bin laden never even existed. I mean yeah that bearded dude with the hat existed, but he was working for the US the whole time.

He was just idea so to speak. After 9-11 people needed someone to hate. So they made up this bin-laden character to give people an "enemy" to hate.

Now they want an excuse to go to war with Pakistan so they decided to "kill" bin laden and make it look like he was hiding in their country.

perfect excuse to invade. and at the same time make americans believe we accomplished something.

it makes sense.

[Weedguru_Fire_Inside]

Frankly, Logically, I find your idea proposterous.

[andriaSRH]

I think logic is on to something here...

[cdc]

osama bin laden is a real person logic, he was the son of a weathly arab leader.

i suspect had been dead for years and the Americans only just found out about it

[weedguru_animal]

I skipped a lot of posts because its difficult for me to read heavy handed political views... but I'm just gonna throw this out here.


Osama bin laden never even existed. I mean yeah that bearded dude with the hat existed, but he was working for the US the whole time.

He was just idea so to speak. After 9-11 people needed someone to hate. So they made up this bin-laden character to give people an "enemy" to hate.

Now they want an excuse to go to war with Pakistan so they decided to "kill" bin laden and make it look like he was hiding in their country.

perfect excuse to invade. and at the same time make americans believe we accomplished something.

it makes sense.

I am glad to read elsewhere of your return, comrade...but on this matter...you seem to have zero knowledge of Pakistan. Its more vociferously ANTI-US, (understandably so), than the rest of the world (again, understandably so). And they have nuclear weapons. The other thing to consider is the very obvious, to anyone with even a mormon mind, the fact that the US military endeavours are focused on lining the pockets of the people who put bush and obama into power. So lets look at Pakistan as a place to rape and pillage, whatever the lies disseminated to make the by now, very obvious huge portions of dangerously ingorant americans support such a measure. So far...they can only use this : 'pakistan were WITH Osama'...avoiding as much as possible mentioning how many millions of american taxpayer money, has been handed to Pakistan on a silver platter.

The question which then beckon answeri9ng, or at least pondering are these...
How can the military industrial complex which own the US make money through invading Pakistan???

Their massive majority of exports are textile goods...they are massuively and rightfully anti-US...and they have nuclear weapons.

chance of US invasion...0%.

[Funk Doctor]

BUT THEN I thought, what if the US government and Osama are IN CAHOOTS!? Maybe this was staged by BOTH sides, maybe he is part of the conspiracy as well.

You mean just like he has been since before we were born?

I refuse to believe anything that comes out of the mouth of a politician, especially the 'puppet on a string president' of the USA without educating myself on the matter. Without any substantial material to use for self-education, i assume this is just another lie.

So, you're saying you're Glenn Beck?

If they didn't kill or capture him, there would've been a video out there the next day of Osama himself ridiculing the Americans. Think about that before going "ISS ALL A LIES!!!1"

My 2 cents: They either got him and he's dead (and burying him at sea would be sort of good for Osama since as a wahhabi muslim he did not believe in marked graves) or they got him and he's locked in some dark hole somewhere for daily torture. Either way, we won't be seeing any videos of Mr Bin Laden any time soon. Good riddance

[Funk Doctor]

And for the 9/11 conspiracy fans out here, I have 6 words: The Mystery Of The Urinal Deuce.

[Ikku]

Funk Doc, did you see what I said though? It is possible that Osama has been dead for years. It's also possible that Osama is working for or with the United States and playing along with a staged killing.

[Funk Doctor]

He hasn't been dead for years, he posted videos regularly talking about recent events the past years (e.g. the bombings in London and Madrid). And he isn't working with the Americans either. He may have been during the Afghan-Soviet War, but that was an alliance of convenience. America needed the Russians to get their asses kicked by the mujahideen, bin Laden needed training and logistical support from a strong faction. After that relations turned sour because the Saudis refused bin Laden's help in the Iran-Iraq War and called the Americans instead, and because the Americans favored Israel, the mortal enemy of any radical islamist. That's nothing new, history is rife with examples of allies turning enemies and enemies turning allies. That's politics for ya.

[weedguru_animal]

its nieve to believe, funk, that there is zero alliance between american governmental agencies and Osama, based, on the obvious to anyone with even on eye cast regularly onto such matters, the hateful rage from islamic extremists towards the zionists.