Concept of 'Forever'?

[Zen]

i still stick to the idea that nevereding life would be wicked as long as there were many other lifers!
fuck even on my own, i think i could be kinda happy, cos though id see loved ones flourish then whither and die, while i livwed on, i would have so much time to try work out life in general. maybe id have abetter idfea of how it began and why it began and if or when it will end.

Life began so it could end. It's as simple as that. Anything that hasa beginning is meant to have an ending. If that wasn't so then it wouldn't have to be created in the first place because it would just simply be.

i could kill those who i think need to be eradicated. i could help imprison those who need to be controlled. if i had no fe of death, there would eb lots i would do.
but what the fuck would happen if you committed a crime like 100 years ago, then the fuckers caught up with me?would the coppers do me with the old laws or would i be tried under the modern laws?a worrying prospective. buit hey even if they give me 5 life sentences of like 125 years or wahtevr that would be, i would outlive it.

haha ok Mr. God (in referrence to the assumption of your judgement being supreme), if it took them 100 yeas to catch up to you they wouldn't simply imnprison you because they would obviously noticed how you haven't aged one bit and are still a felon. If they did catch you they would most likely execute you, or imprison for life period, not multiple life sentences not a number, they would lock you up and throw away the key and probably seal you into your own tomb.

so i cant agree tha i wouldnt like to be immortal. immortal different to tme though, as it insinuates a kinda of protective barrier round the body and soul that regenerates or repels every atack. like vampire ma be immortal, but he can be killed by the sun?you know theres different levels of immortaility...

I would assume immortality is just the opposite of mortality. Mortality is when something contains a life, in which this life can be taken away and most assuredly will eventually be lost. This is the pain or price of being mortal. Immortality then would simply be the quality of something being devoid of a life, in which case there IS no life to take away or be lost. Even without a life though this immortal exists. Existance would therefore be something seperate to life. While the immortal existss he has no life and so forth shall exist permanently. The mortal has his life, and therefore shall exist impermanently until its life is lost.

Being immortal would certainly be interesting. But if you could live forever would you even be seriously motivated to do anything with that power? How many times would one look at himself and then say to himself, "Aaahhh, I'll do it tomorrow". You know? Why rush? Mortality gives us a reason to accomplish things. If everyone was immortal we would be as dynamic as a stagnant pool. We would have done and said everything already and therefore there would simply be nothing left to do.

How many people would be trying to kill themselves just because it's the one last thing they haven't done yet? Makes you think. perhaps we should all be thankful that we have a life to lose, and cease trying to think of ways to live eternally.
Peace~

[weedguru_animal]

'Life began so it could end. It's as simple as that. Anything that hasa beginning is meant to have an ending. If that wasn't so then it wouldn't have to be created in the first place because it would just simply be.'- zen

zen, how are you so sure of creation and the beginggin-end cycle of life?You were touching on such inteersting cocnepts with the circular idea of life in anothe rthread, but have you now reverted to conculding that life is more like a straight line?

i didnt make ne refernce to my judgment been supreme in any form. I was consdering onyl the issue of how i would fel if i possessed immortality, not divinity. a line is clearly drawn between those two games for me.

Assuming immortality is the o[pposite of mortality is good by dicitonary definition but bearing in mind it is a totally unproven idea it seems rather silly to take the defintion as the extreme. in many stories and films immortals can be killd zen, often by other immotals only, but sometimes by neone, like the highlanders, the vampires, angels and the elves. these are stories yes, but they are based around our ideas or possible ideas for immortality.

but from the idea that immortals in our stories, and therefore in our imaginations, can be killed, then i cant accept that it is a straight opposite of mortality.

anyway its a subject that requires imagination, even to post. your response seemed much more like a unimaginative scientist zen, rather than the forward and open thinking young man i know you are..

no point going on takig apart what we are saying!

well just agree to disagree n this one mate.

its just one of those words we have a defintion for, but we have nothing whatsoever to back up the defintion.

animal

[Zen]

Just because I said whatever begins must have an end doesn't mean I disbelieve in a cyclical timeline. But if you look at a circle, where exactly does it begin? No where right? it's just there. Sure you can draw a circle, but you'll always see that seam or crease where the two lines connect. Perhaps it would be better too look at life in a spiral rather than in such 1 and 2 dimensional respects. But that's another topic entirely.

If immortality isn't the opposite of mortality than what is? I never said that something immortal couldn't be "killed", I said they can be removed from existence which for your interpretive needs is essentially the same as killing. I said immortals exist without a life. They will not die by loosing their life like us mortals, but they can surely still be removed from existance. Don't ask me how though. I've never met an immortal before that's had the luxury of telling me his personal experiences haha.

I don't think I was looking at it scientifically at all. I was approaching it from a scholarly philosophical point of view. Seeing what I see for what it is.

And touching on my first point again about the beginning and the end. Just because there's an end doesn't necessarily mean there won't be a beginning again. If you remember correctly I mentioned speak of a great void from which all creation is birthed from. Everything that begins must have an end so it can return to this emptiness. And then when the time has come that emptiness births into a creation a new beginning, which after it has run it's course, it shall end once again and return to this void. I haven't reverted at all in my thinking, don't worry Dan, not that you should be or were worried to begin with. But if you were beginning to worry, have no fear that it should last forever, because it too will eventually fade like the rest of these objects with beginnings, it has its end as well

Peace~

[weedguru_animals queen]

okay gotcha zen, you still with the vast emptiness of nothingness theory, which makes some kinda sense. thats your thoughts and mine differ somewhat.

why does everything have to have a beginning and a end?Where does hat rule come from?

it is a hard subject to broach and sicuss due to the many conneting topics hat ride up from any accurate disectio of the immortality question.

strange tho i have more faith maybe in my own feelings of the world than some scientific ideals, i do have this strange link in my mind between the consevraion of energy and immorality. i suppose it coems down to how you percieve existance, like whether you think after you die the soul or this energy goes somewhere else, iof it continues in some way or form, maybe with meory of the previous life maybe not, eitehr way, this idea of continuance after our physcial death can be connected strongly with the immortal concept, as if the soul survives and is re incarnated then this conservation of energy/soul or imortality idea holds some water, in theory neway.

its very hard with all these concepts to debate, due to the lack of REAL knowledge any of us have about the subject matter. life after death and the soul are two subjects which we dont really have nething to gon other than what others have written and thought and what we think ourseleves.

i guess yeh to finish i take the idea of forever down to the idea of conservatyion of energy and conservation of soul as soul is made of some kinda energy, not like in kjoules, but in some energy, maybe an energy similar to your idea of this vast nothingess zen. who knows?


i do also think that there is a connection f this energy which links us all, how much so is anotehr matetr again entirely. How much we can tap into this pool of unmeasurable energy may well remain a mystery all of my phsycial life. i do have strong beleifs that this enrgy source exists and can be touche dupo and utilized moe than we think or can possibly concieve. There is far too much in history of magicians sorcereors, omens, water divination, mediums, ghosts, unexplainable event sby science basically which add weight to my belief that so much more exists somewhere....

NB THIS WAS BY WEEDGURU_ANIMAL not his adorable queen, i thought i was logged in but i was actually logged in as the lady.

[Midnight Toker]

NB THIS WAS BY WEEDGURU_ANIMAL not his adorable queen, i thought i was logged in but i was actually logged in as the lady.

Oh, haha, that makes more sense. When i was reading that post i thought, 'damn, animal and his bird are so fucking similar.' For a minute there i was worried that there was two of ya

[Zen]

LOL I was thinking the exact same thing. Infact I believed it was animal till I scrolled enough to see his lovely lady's sig and then I though "Whoa.... This is her talking? Now THAT"S interesting!" but then I read the last line and all the pieces fell into place and order and balance was once again restored to their proper alignments hahaha

Edit: lol that isn't to say Mme. Animal isn't a briliant wise and intuitive individual herself. She's actually got the beauty AND the brains! Must be the latin blood haha.


Peace~

[FIRE!!!]

Forever is all around you, within you, and of you. Forever is just a stupid ultimatum made by humans to try and explain what they don't know. But really, forever is right in front of you. It just doesn't show its face. Forever will be with you, by your side, forever.

[Zen]

So you're saying forever is nothing then? Forever is a nonexistent concept? Or that it is exactly, merely that, a concept? Forever, like time, is somewhat relevant. For all you know, if know one tells you other wise, if something has existed prior to your existence and continues lasting onwards past your existence than it has existed forever. But then I guess you could say there are two seperate kinds of forever. Relative forever (in terms that it's lasted forever since you've known it to be there), and actual forever (in the terms that it has never been created and shall never be uncreated and that it shall simply BE, forever).

And perhaps there are even more types of forever. But then again, when one gets into the business of naming things, one must always know when to stop. Perhaps two is enough.

Peace~

[Ice006]

In my topic starting post, I should have been more specific as to what I was trying to say. The thought of existing, consciously, for an eternity. I think the feeling I was overwhelmed with as a kid was an incredible lonliness when I tried to fathom the concept.
But even if you got to chill forever with your friends and whatnot, eventually you'll have seen and done practically everything, in every possible combination, then it'll get boring and you're stuck with nothing to do, with no escape, ever.

[weedguru_animal]

hey ice, yeh we have strayed abit from the original post because some of us have strong ideas and beliefs about the reality of the immortal concept, not just for the human physcial life, but for the soul, so the subject gives rise to so many other possible trains of thought....

[wgToonces]

I think what you all mean is an eternal living body. Like a body that will not die, diminish or feel pain.

Think about it, if you lived forever, eventually your body will start to rot and die.

What you are and what your body is, are different. If you get what I mean

You will live forever, but you are not your body. You is like a matter, that exists inside your body.

I don't know if anyone has heard of this but it's the Bird and The Cage theory. Basically, your mind and soul are tied in a knot. Your mind and soul together is a bird. Your body is the cage. So when your body dies, its just like the cage diminishing. That bird needs a cage to survive, so it flies away, which is like your mind and soul finding another body or cage. Eventually your mind "life" comes to and end. After that, your soul "lives" eternally without a body....This is what I believe in. And this belife will never change.

[Funk Doc]

I'd never want to be immortal. Sure, it's great for the first two or three hundred years, but after that it would be getting pretty boring if you ask me.

[FIRE!!!]

I think forever is just the layman's term for the time space continuum.

[PuffPuffGive]

ive been reading this post blitzed out of my mind (its actually pretty good) ummm i started to think about groundhogs day or wutever its called i think immortaility would begin to look something like that u know how history repeats itself and all i dont know.... im pretty ripped thogh

[Zen]

Hey agauin all.. figured I would add to this post a little.. anyuways .. I've comnow to belive ... at least this is what I feel to be substantial... that time as we know is a physical concept.... we need an idea of time to function in this type if reality... time and space or matter I guess, are extremely connected... infact time is simply a variable number which is connected to all things in the "equation" that makes them real... it's like the Volume equation, except with time added to it, it gives it a finite existance, and with that finite existance we can hold it, see it, percieve it, studay it etc.

Now with the concept of forever... well it totally opposites every ideal of this equation. Something that lasts forever doesn't need height width and length... correct? Something that is forever is just simply there and just simply is. It is litterally unbound by the concept of time. Yet it creates the concept of time... though I may be getting ahead of myself. Everyhting we can understand, materialy and physically, has to have a variable of time to it... or else I don't think it could exist in our plane of existence. If anybody has listend to the song Closing Time, htere is one crucial line in there that transcensds ecery other word sung in that song. It's "Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end." And that's the ultimate truth. It's a natural truth.

Forever has no beginning and there fore has no end. Yes it may be something peoiple created for what the dont understand, but the fact remains that there is stuff out there that people don't understand and therefore that thing people don't understand is real. It is a real, perhaps even living thing, which can be classified as forever.

Sure this is probably just gibbberish, especially to those who refuse to wrap their heads arouynd it, but it's there none the less.

While ever, could be considered the matter of space and time... Forever could be considered the anti matter of that. Perhaps forever is just one singular point, with no begining and end, it's simply content in the fact that it's simply there. Perhaps time is forever. And that all that means is that this cycle, this repetitive nature of beginnings and endings, will last forever. This forever we speak of is the now. Can you honestly tell me exactly when "NOW" begins and ends? It's doesn't does it. It's just simply forever NOW, now can't be a second ago, or a couple minutes into the future, it's just an everlasting moment, which is infinitely repeated.

That's my concept of forever, and yes it may seem paradoxical and it may seem like a bunch of monkey blabber translated into English text and posted on an online forum but that's the way I see it.

Time is infinite and the Infinite is just a matter of time.

Peace~