Political Ideology, and Personal Ideals!

[Weedguru~N0isenkiss3s]

I'd post in here....but I fear retribution !

>> I like our free health care, but I do understand that some people don't want it....and understand a concern that because we have free health care, our medical staff might not always be up to par.

My friend from Texas and I sort of nailed it down and I think a comedian did as well to basically "If you're in America...and you get sick...you're fucked. If you're in Canada...and you don't get sick....you're fucked."

It's kind of interesting I guess with things like Communism...because in theory they're great. I used to know a guy who was determined to take over a small island and prove communism can work...it's just too difficult to impose it on a large group of people...and such as if everyone is paid the same, why should someone work 18 hours a day as a doctor when they get the exact same wages as someone who works in a book store sitting behind a desk?

No, it's not fair that someone has 120 million......but it's not right of us to take it from them because, however it happened, they earned it. Even if it's just the lottery...they bought the ticket, they participated, they earned it.

Personally, I'd love to have 120 million dollars I think I'd swim in it...but you definitly have to share the wealth in that situation o_o; make some donations >>;

[m3tal]

The alexischamp guy thinks rich people are selfish and snobby. The truth is, who donates most of the money to charities? Rich people even create charities... So all in all, they give back alot, much more than the average person. And if alex is all for helping people, why is he taking money that would go to poor people and instead put it through a wasteful bureacracy?

n0isen I agree with you a lot, your statements are more practical than theoretical.

My friend from Texas and I sort of nailed it down and I think a comedian did as well to basically "If you're in America...and you get sick...you're fucked. If you're in Canada...and you don't get sick....you're fucked."

And about that... If you get sick anywhere your fucked. Even with good healthcare you could die.

[alexthechamp]

Animal, the first part of you post was quite unnecessary and hyprocritical. I never said anything about neutrality; I put this in the debate section for good reason. I would appreciate it if you didn't fabricate what I had 'publicized'. I would not have so strongly rejected m3tal's political preference if he has not first acted infallible. I find your double-standard laughable. You act as if your are intellectually superior to many members as well...thank you for you advice, yet you are not my advisor! So please, save your wisdom...


"Politics is inherently focussed on manipulation of perceptions and the procurement of power and control. Whether that control and power is 'for the good of the masses' is not relevant to me."

This in ironic statement considering you run a small community yourself, although it is online and I believe that whether power and control whether your own or politicians is quite relevant to you. Maybe you should review the ways in which you act as an authority and draw parallels between your manipulation of perceptions/procurement of power and control and those of real govn't.

[m3tal]

Theres a difference between a government and a forum. If your born in a country then unless you move out, you have to follow those rules. A forum is COMPLETELY voluntary, and you searched out this site or were referred to it, and voluntarily joined. Its unfair to call animal a dictator or something just because he owns a forum, or co-owns it. Government is forceful, a forum is not. Get your facts straight. A forum may have rules, but don't many buisnesses also? Ever been to a bowling alley and the rules say "no cursing, this is a family establishment"? Its the same thing, your going there voluntarily, no ones forcing you.

Animal, I think your philosophy is interesting, and partly true. Human nature is self destructive over the long term, and self preservative over the short term, if you understand me.

It takes compromise, but you're convinced people deserve whatever they can get, no difference in the methods of which they obtain those ends.

Alex, your a hypocrite again in saying this. I have said multiple times that a violation of property rights and any nonconcentual act of force against someone is considered a crime. Although in my world, if you kill someone in self defense your not a criminal. Where did you get thhe idea that I said the ends justify the means?

[alexthechamp]

I said draw parallels my friend. I was not being literal-the reason I believe you think that the end justifies the means because you refuse to admit that it is wrong to step on people to become a millionaire-it is wrong to exploit, and that is what capitalism has boiled down to, a disgusting deceitful scum. We are, clearly, a society bent on obtaining and claiming a right to whatever we fucking want. I never said animal was a dictator I just feel that he was being unfair to say that I act right all the time when he knows that he feels he is among morons, and has said such things. I believe that by acting superior sometimes he's a hypocrit, and said that I thought power was relevant to him in some way.

[m3tal]

Yeah, some disgusting things happen within the law. Maybe people should learn from mistakes so these disgusting things wouldn't happen rather than cry to mommy government for more laws protecting stupid people. Thats what life is, learn from your mistakes. Harsh I know, but thats what the world is.

ps. I drew your parallels, and it didn't make sense to compare a voluntary thing to a forced thing.

[alexthechamp]

The world is what people make it, and these 'stupid' people probably fall within your family tree when they were immigrants, foreign to North America. Do you have no empathy? How can you say that these people that are oppressed are stupid? I think that you yourself need to recieve some more education.

[m3tal]

Plenty of non opressed people get ripped off too. Everyone does at some point. Maybe stupid was the wrong word. Non-experienced is a better term in retrospect. I've been ripped off too... I didn't feel a need for government. I felt stupid and bitter, and I will learn from that experience. This is why youth stay dumb in the US and similar places. They think the government is here to keep them safe from bad things and that is just not true. The kids growing up here in the US are growing up sorta dumb from sub par public schooling, and being told all there life the government will help them etc. That is unhealthy, people need to be adults and accept responsibility.

[alexthechamp]

Wow.

"They think the government is here to keep them safe from bad things and that is just not true."

Umm actually, that is a major role of government. If the the most important one. What do you believe the role of government is? To make sure the economy is great by any means, or spreading your freedom? You mentioned earlier how you dislike the near 'police state' you live in. You better start believing that we should expect protection, as well as accountability. If we don't get those things we are obligated to make a change-whether it's a peacful revolution or not. Oh, and that sub-par public schooling is because you guys want to cut taxes :roll:

another thing: if people are constantly getting a raw deal, that is surely a form of oppression.

[m3tal]

Its here to prevent people from taking your freedom... Statements have been issued from the government saying they have no role to protect you. I think the government does have a role in punishing criminals, but only violent ones in my opinion.

[alexthechamp]

That is protecting you...
im done here buddy

[Weedguru~N0isenkiss3s]

The alexischamp guy thinks rich people are selfish and snobby. The truth is, who donates most of the money to charities? Rich people even create charities... So all in all, they give back alot, much more than the average person. And if alex is all for helping people, why is he taking money that would go to poor people and instead put it through a wasteful bureacracy?

n0isen I agree with you a lot, your statements are more practical than theoretical.

My friend from Texas and I sort of nailed it down and I think a comedian did as well to basically "If you're in America...and you get sick...you're fucked. If you're in Canada...and you don't get sick....you're fucked."

And about that... If you get sick anywhere your fucked. Even with good healthcare you could die.

I beg your pardon I meant financially speaking

[cutthecashflow]

Ideology dates way back, a good example is Medeivel Europe. At the time land was the primary source of wealth, and only nobility and the church could own land. Almost everyone was a peasent who worked for these powerful land owners. The peasents raised crops, animals, and built roads and did other maintence. Every year the peasents had to give a portion of their hard work to the upper class. (Nobles and church). For centuries this went on. Why did the peasents not simply revolt and overthrow the upper class?

The nobles and clergy used ideology to their benifit. They developed an ideology known as the dvine right of kings. This was supposed to mean that the kings authority comes directly from god. So in the peasents eyes to disobeye is a direct sin against god.

Controlling peoples ideas can be extremely more effective than using force. The elite in every society today develops ideologies to control their position at the top. Think, around the globe every school teaches their countrys form of government no matter what form, as the best. The ideologies become adopted by the masses of that society and the elite remain in power.

I dunno my two cents...