God, do you believe in him?

[MellowFourTwenty]

nature, my surroundings, and my soul is what tells me god exists. you can ask the question thousands of times and nothing will but how does it spark thought. it is an unanswerable question. same as asking how do molymers become polymers.

the point im making is that its not arguing but its not helping the topic by sparking conversation or invoking thought. this is the at least the 5th time you ask nothing is getting done just arguing.

i would like you to elaborate more on how nature, your surroundings, and your soul tells you god exists.

[Darth Inhaler]

Its a simple question. Could God create a rock so heavy that even he couldnt lift?

First of all, that is NOT a simple question. The reason no man can answer that question is because man cannot comprehend God, or His actions.

Besides, God doesn't have a mortal body like we do. He can't lift rocks. He can create them, destroy them, change them, but he isn't in the same form as we are. He might not even have a body, he could just be a spirit, and spirits can't lift things.

That is your answer.

[Zen]

No Offense Nick but that was a terrible answer. But you were right when you said God is something mankind cannot comprehend. And trying to ascertain this comprehension by trapping the "existance of God" into manmade confines of understandability, only further complicates the already difficult task of trying to do something difficult like "believing in God".

However, the truth of the matter is that it isn't a very difficult thing to do, when you don't try to apply the Laws of Humankind and Human Comprehension to solving such a "problem". It's like trying to do addition with multiplication and division signs. 2 + 6 is just not going to equal 8 is you trying to do it only this way (2 x 6) or that way (2 / 6).

If you trying to prove that the question at hand though is relatively unanswerable than I'll give it to you. It is unanswerable, if you were God, I'm sure you would be able to figure it out. It;s sorta the exact same way we have such a hard time dealing with the concept of infinity. Sure we understand it in theory, but the practical comprehendability of somethihng with no beginning and no end confounds even the most brilliant scholars. Could you live your life fully believing that All of you Reality exists within infiniteness? Or would you need to have that defining start finish root in your mind to function properly, or at least normally.

Now Big Dave, if that is your real name , if that didn't "answer" anything for you, then perhaps you should just go read some damn material on the subject matter before you come back and bother us with your MIND-NUMBINGLY stupid question. Yes I'm saying it's stupid, and not because there is no genuine desire for your curiousity to be sated, but more rather that it's lowering the intelligence of this whole debate down to the level of something very reminiscent of a banana slug.

In short I don't think anyone here can answer your question, but if it's so important to you, maybe you should start doing some praying or meditation on the subject and ask God for yourself. Oh but wait, if you don't believe in their being a God how can you ask it? WAIT If you really don't believe in God then why the fuck would you ask it in the first place? For obviously to you there is no God to do what it is you are asking it to hypotheticaly do!

Get your head straight kid.

Peace~

[weedguru_animal]

'
i would like you to elaborate more on how nature, your surroundings, and your soul tells you god exists.'

SOme of the post in this thread are beyond my current focus, but I can give a few pointers to what I would be saying if my mind wasnt looking intensley at the news machine which gives us the main predictions/reasons for more bad for everyone. I am addicted to news... anyway i have prayed to God before, mainly inre: to women, and when i have been fucked from drugs and lying in a room thinking i am gunna die...
I was christened a roman cathlic, though wouldn never cast myself as a pratcising catholic of any kind really...

I see what doc was saying about feeling god in nature and inyour soul..and i do have some belief in a benign force which can affetc our lives..

before i got my lady i said a prayer to god, from whichever religion he might be..i asked for a beautiful, smaller, lustful, loving latin angel to be sent to me and within 2 weeks i met my lady who satisified those demands perfectly, and continues to do so..strange eh..

i didnt wanna post in here because as usual Zen has raised the bar a bi thigher than im prepared to jump.. i got the jist of your words mate(zen).. but yeh my focus very different right now....

All i can say is that I see way too much BAD and some small amounts of intense good, throughout society.. and i reckon isee god in nature:::::>>

i walk across the field, and there are a army of birds, all different breeds sizes shapes and colours.. now they are happy to congregate 2getha as long as they arent hungry they are happy and i watch them playing. No real fuckers amongst those birs, they all just 'happy to be alive' and 'happy to be able to fly'..then a few dogs turn up with their 'owners', the dogs chase the birds abit but they dont want to eat them, they want to play.. in short many different varietuies of bird,a dn afew different dog types, but nobody fights... anumal world and natural world shows just love for life and fun...more so than in the human world..

yeh the non human world shows billions of examples of nature taking what it needs and also loving fun........the human world shows this must moreso evil, which doesnt seem as apparent in nature.. how many animals/creatures you know that has to kill everything it can, has to take everything it can from nature... this is why on some levels i have problems with evolution....
did that help??

[weedguru_animal]

as how can we say that evolution has made humanity better??????????the problem with the current 'evolutionary' path is that the rich greedy nasty surivive more than the good, so we have been, are are stuck on a one way street towards de-evolution in terms of principles/morality/decency....non human world, apart from sharks i say is more evoleved in those factors.
how can we say we area evolved when our leaders put us aside from every other link of life on the earth, including the earth itself..
we arent seperate, we are part of the world, part of one big connected force of life...though are current highly evolved state pushes the most evil to the top of the humantree..and if the evil fuckers are running he shopw, then evil prevails... which brings me back round to god and devil,,, devil easier to get at humans than animals,, god is in animals more naturaly, as thjeir connection/understanding of nature is immense compared with the average human who sees nature as 'whats around us; rather than what we are part of'''

[Darth Inhaler]

No Offense Nick but that was a terrible answer.

Hahaha
I wasn't actually TRYING to give a good answer. He just wanted one so I gave him one.

[Zen]

Hahaha well I can understand that.

And to add on to what animal just said about feeling God through Nature. I know I feel the same way. Although I find it harder to appreciate nature living in the city, especially now that most of our trees have been cut down do to Pine Beetle kill, but I can feel it especially when it snows that there is something around me. Watching the crows fly with the wind. I watched these two crows one day fly up and down doing barrel rolls and loops and just playing with eachother, it made me realize that they were functioning totally apart from all else. It was just them and the wind all around them. There was no competition just pure play. Something that is hard to come by in the human world.

The best feeling I've ever experienced was out in the middle of the woods, down by the lake infront of a great bonfire, experiencing all of nature's elements at once. It's not like anything you can experience with anything relatively manmade. It's a unique feeling that comes from inside and is insulated by the nature outside. It's hard not to believe in something that makes me feel such a way. It just seems natural to me

Peace~

[Dr. Greenthumb]

i know how you feel i live in the heart of a concrete jungle. luckily i can do an hours drive and get to a beach or some good nature trails.

[BigDave]

Its not a stupid question, if Gods all powerful then he must be able to create a human form of himself, Ive had this discussion with many people and they can actually TRY and give a logical answer but you people just seem to brush it off because you cant answer it and because you cant answer you call me stupid because I am challenging your beliefs and you cant answer it, so in reality you are the stupid ones but whatever, you people stay in your deludid world.

[weedguru_animal]

bigdave, can't you see that its YOU who needs this proof?Those of us who feel something or believe in GOD in any form/state of existance have our own reasons.
the fact that YOU, yourself need to see scientific evidence of this 'GOD' is a matter for you to get around/over/through yourself.

I mean can you really explain every single thing about yourself, the way ou think, the way you feel??Do you brak down your thoughts/your actions, esentialy i mean You, how far down do you break your own sense of being, if you try to examine why you are here, why you are who you are??
can you explain nature??can you explain why a dolphin would risk its own gills to save a human who was being attacked by a shark???

If there was GoD like say from the bible, then why would he (lets say its a him) give a flying fuck about satsifying futile demands of his validity??I think the idea of one man sitting on athrone in the clouds is a bit far-fetched, but im in position to deny it...

i think you can go through life always needing proof before you offer belief, but you miss out on a alot...

look around you, at the way everything seems to fit 2getha, not human touched world, i mean nature..
i think maybe its a bit of a egotistical assumption,, i mean to think of the most powerful benign force being in some way human.

in short, not everything requires proof to be believable...

just as easily as you can say, 'why cant god make a rock he cant carry'?
i could say' why would god care?don't you think he has enough on his plate, and also whay would he achieve by revealing himself to humanity?maybe the non-human world know him already, but they dont tell uss, cos we act like we are in facts the GODS of earth, living in a habitiat desgined by like a super version of us, for us...if he did reveal himself, people would be putting even less effort into proactive positive work..i.e. why should i help out when god is about to sort out the shit?'....

[Dr. Greenthumb]

God is omnipotent he can make the rock he cant lift but if he decides to lift it he can expand himself to take on the task. so in essence he is bound only by himself and only when he chooses to be.

[Zen]

That was probably the best reasoning I've seen so far. Perhaps to think ultimately that we can escape God's bounds and transcend them, is merely an illusion, an illusion granted to the rock, or the sandwhich, or us or whatever, so that it's allowerd to become greater than it's creator, but then the creator says "Oh now, wait, you've come too far" . Or the object at hand can no longer support it's own capacity and once that illusion has gotten too great to sustain itself it is swallowed up in the great all encircling arms of its God.

And then he decides to make another one. Maybe that's all that life is! Maybe that's all that time is. It's all jus tone big rock.

Peace~

[BigDave]

If he be omnipotent, how can he be offended; and how can we resist him?

[Dr. Greenthumb]

you can easily resist him, because he doesnt impose his will on you. freedom of choice.

[MellowFourTwenty]

that still doesnt tell me how you see god in nature, you're just saying you feel good when you're out in nature so you think it must be god.i live in the middle of nowhere i have lakes within half a mile of my house i know what it feels like to be in nature but when you're around it all the time going to the city can make you feel the same way.